On Building Muscle While Burning Fat – Ep. 163

In this episode of Next Level Human Podcast, Dr. Jade gives a thorough overview on the process of building muscle while burning fat. This process is doable – research says – but it’s important to know the right way and most importantly: the right variables. The concept of Body Recomposition is different from going through separate ‘phases’ of building muscle and losing fat, commonly known as ‘bulking’ and ‘cutting’.

Dr. Jade also explains that it will be easier for beginners to do this, simply because they haven’t been exercising and dieting for too long. A more experienced person who wants to build muscle at the same time as losing fat is going to struggle a little bit more. You will also learn the connection between this process and macronutrient intake, macronutrient ratios, and different diet modalities such as veganism and keto. 

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Connect with Dr. Jade Teta

Website: www.jadeteta.com

Instagram: @jadeteta

TRANSCRIPTION:

Podcast Intro: [00:14] welcome to the Next Level Human Podcast. As a human, you have a job to do. In fact, you have four jobs; to earn and manage money, to attain and maintain health and fitness, to build and sustain personal relationships, to find meaning and make a difference. None of these jobs are taught in school and that is what this podcast is designed to do. To educate us all on living our most fulfilled lives through the mastery of these four jobs. I'm your host, Dr. Jade Teta and I believe we are here living this life for three reasons and three reasons only; to learn, to teach and to love. In this podcast, I will be learning, teaching, and loving right along with you. I'm grateful to have your company; here is to our next level.

Episode Intro: [01:18] Okay, what's going on everybody? Welcome to today's show. Today, we're going back to metabolism. And you know, it's a good time to do it, because it's early spring, people are kind of always wanting to kind of see how they can take their fitness and body to the next level body composition. So today, we're going to be talking a little bit about body composition. And so you might say, well, what is that, Jade? Basically what that is, is how do we at all ages and all levels and everything else? How do we as individuals, try to take ourselves from one body composition to another body composition, and do it in a way that is burning fat, and hopefully maintaining or perhaps even gaining muscle at the same time. So this is this idea of body recon positioning, meaning that we're basically trying to trade fat for muscle, we're basically trying to burn off the fat and gain the muscle in a sense. Some people call this feeding the lean, basically meaning that what we want to do is we want to feed our bodies exercise a lot put on muscle, and hopefully burn fat in the process. Now if you are a very frequent listener to this podcast and the metabolism aspects of this podcast, because as you know, we cover mindset and muscle and sort of metabolism. This is kind of falls in the rubric of muscle and metabolism this show, especially if you listen to those muscle and metabolism podcast, you probably have heard of the idea and heard me say that the metabolism is not a great multitasker. And now I'm saying hey, look, today's topic is going to be on how do we get the body to multitask better. In other words, from the metabolisms point of view, burning fat, while building muscle is kind of the metabolic equivalent of rubbing your tummy and tapping your head it can be done but it takes practice and a concerted effort and detailed attention. The major way that we do that is very well thought out actually, and very well proven actually. And it's proven in several ways. We do have a research base that says this is possible and hints at what we need to be doing if we want to burn fat, and maintain or even gain muscle at the same time. But more importantly, we have a huge base of clinical practice in the world of Natural Bodybuilding. Bodybuilders have been doing this for generations now, right like going all the way back to Arnold and you know, maybe the generation before so it's like one full generation of 1000s and 1000s and 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of people who are physique athletes, meaning people who are using their bodies, almost as like a living flesh sculpture to burn fat off the body while gaining muscle. This is the realm of bodybuilding. And we have a lot of people 1000s of people, if not 10s of 1000s of people, if not millions of people who have gone through this process. And we have a good research base here. So there is a way to do this. And it is pretty well known and pretty well thought out. And pretty simple when you discuss it in a format like this. Now, of course it's incredibly difficult once you get down to actually doing it. And I'm just going to come out and tell you right now what the two major components are.

[04:55] When we think about body recompositioning, when we think about metabolic multitasking, burning fat and building muscle at the same time, we basically began to think about trading resistance training in place or putting resistance training in place of cardiovascular exercise as the dominant form of exercise, and also trading up protein as the dominant macronutrient, while also reducing fat, and then playing around with the Goldilocks point with carbs. But in a very real sense, this is really about resistance training, and protein intake. That's what it's about resistance training and protein intake. Now, this is at a high level, it's like, okay, so Jade, what you're telling me to do is you're telling me eat more protein, and do more resistance training? And that's exactly right. But of course, we want to get into more of the details here, because there's an awful lot of thought and controversy around well, what should we be doing with our resistance training, because there are many different types of resistance training, right there is, you know, sort of a traditional sort of powerlifting stuff trying to get strong. This is stuff that stays in the repetition range of maybe, you know, one rep all the way up to six reps, right in this sort of one to six rep, maybe eight rep range. So it's relatively heavy weights in lower repetitions with longer rest periods. This is what we typically think about when we're trying to get stronger. And then of course, there's this idea of okay, well, what about these people who just want to focus on building muscle, because what a lot of people don't know, who aren't students of this industry, and aren't students of resistance training is that the two are somewhat related, but not exactly related. In other words, if you build bigger muscles, there is some crossover that you might get stronger. However, really hypertrophy, the growth of muscles is different than getting strong. And there is a particular way to train for that that typically resides in higher repetition ranges, maybe from eight all the way up to 30 in a in a set. And you might say, Oh, my God, Jade, what are you talking about here, like, why the huge repetition range. And we'll get into this a little bit here in a minute in terms of how to build muscle with workouts. But we also have these other workouts that I talked about a lot called metabolic conditioning, which have to do with very short rest periods, what we call lifting weights faster, not faster in terms of the speed at which you're doing the repetitions, but faster, meaning less rest between sets. And one of the first rules you have to understand here, which we'll get into in a minute is that the shorter the rest period you take, the more you interfere with hypertrophy. Now obviously, meaning the more you interfere with gaining muscle, now, it doesn't mean you won't gain muscle, it just means you're not doing the most efficient type of exercise to gain muscle. Likewise, if you're doing very low repetition, you know, less than six reps, let's say a very high weights with very, you know, sort of long rest periods, you are also potentially interfering with hypertrophy. So when we're talking about muscle growth, we're talking about this sweet spot, sort of here in the middle, where the weights are heavy enough, but not too heavy. And the rest periods are enough, but not too short or too long. So there's kind of this sweet spot we have to talk about here when we're trying to do body recomp positioning. Basically, burning fat and building muscle. Now, of course, the first rule and one rule we oftentimes talk about that may be new to some of you here is that ultimately, when you talk about fat burning and losing fat, this is really mostly about diet. However, when you talk about turning this weight loss into fat loss and holding on to muscle or gaining muscle, we're talking mostly about resistance training. And so again, this is really a diet and exercise type of thing. Now, we've talked about different metabolic toggles that I'll go through really quickly here, just in case people have not heard this concept. There are many different ways to look at this right, there's the Eat less exercise more toggle, which creates a large calorie gap to create a calorie deficit for weight loss, and hopefully, fat loss but for weight loss, eat less exercise more. One of the things you need to understand about that is that with eat less, exercise more, you are going to create a calorie deficit and if you have a calorie deficit, you don't necessarily have the energy to build muscle. So just as weight loss requires a calorie deficit for most people, and in most situations, so too does muscle gain, require calorie excess, so eat less exercise more probably is not the Want to be the best toggle to use if we're trying to multitask if we're trying to do body composition, if we're trying to gain muscle, and burn fat, at the same time, we also have to eat more exercise less toggle, which is really about what this is really about the couch potato model, this is pretty good at giving us extra fuel to burn or to build muscle and fat. But with all those extra calories, you're probably going to put on way too much fat. So that leaves us with two more toggles that you all who are regulars of this podcast are used to hearing about that is the Eat less exercise less toggle, which is what I call sort of the traditional hunter gatherer toggle, or the historical European toggle, it's all about walking a whole lot, not eating that much. And so you're not exercising a whole lot. So you're not that hungry. But you're not doing a lot of crazy exercise, you're not running marathons, you're not doing bodybuilding workouts, you're not doing excessive strenuous exercise, you're just walking a ton. And doing some, you know, resistance training, maybe one to three workouts a week, but mainly walking and eating very little or eating in a you know, sort of a low calorie state. And because you're not exercising so much with eat less, exercise less, it's easier to stay in that low calorie state. Now again, that's probably not going to be the best toggle. If we need fuel to fuel high amounts of longer duration, longer intensity and more frequent exercise is it. So probably the toggle we want to be thinking about is the eat more exercise more toggle, this means we're going to exercise more. And we're going to ramp up our food intake to balance out that exercise and increase sort of this idea of energy flux, a lot of energy coming in, but also a lot of energy going out. And hopefully, if we can get our macronutrient ratios correct with more protein, get the carbohydrates balanced. And a lower fat diet typically is how this works, you're going to be able to do some of this multitasking.

[12:01] so let's go through this in detail. You want to burn fat and you want to gain some muscle. Now, this is difficult to do. So let's get a couple things out of way. If you are a beginner, and you're listening to this and you do what I tell you, you're probably going to have a pretty easy time compared to someone like me and the rest of us who have been doing this for a very long time. And you know, the reason being is that you're a beginner, you're a novice, and so you will respond to exercise more favorably your muscles will have more adaptation potential perhaps, than mine would having been a lifter for, you know, since I was 15. Now, so what is that? You know, I'm now 50 years old, close to 50. So that is a very long time for me to be training, right? Its 30 years basically of me training 30 plus years of training

[15:30] and now back to the show. And so from that perspective, this is going to be easier for you. Now, if we're taking anabolic steroids as well, then that's gonna make it sort of a little bit better as well because of that same adaptation principle. One of the things that anabolic steroids does is help us adapt, right, it helps us adapt and get, you know, better, faster with these extra hormones in our system that aid with muscle protein synthesis and aid with fat burning. That's what things like testosterone and anabolic and analogs of testosterone do, they simultaneously help us burn fat and increase muscle protein synthesis. So we gain muscle. And so those who are on anabolic steroids can do this. Well, now for the rest of us who are natural athletes, now I am on testosterone replacement therapy, which is different than anabolic steroid use, or high testosterone use, I'm basically just replacing normal amounts. So for those of you who are like me, still going to be relatively more difficult because your testosterone isn't at super physiological levels, it's just simply keeping you in the normal range. So for the rest of us who are not beginners and are not taking anabolic steroids, this is going to be much more difficult to do. Now, for those of you who are taking anabolic, and those of you who are beginners, it's gonna be much more easy to do. So let's break this down pretty quickly. And this should not be too long of a podcast, but it should be a really important one for you. First, let's talk about diet. Okay, so the three major macronutrients fat, protein and carbohydrates now two of those macronutrients, fat and carbs are primarily prioritize one sec, I got my alarm going off for me to stop that, okay. So fat and carbohydrates, right are primarily prioritized by the body for energy use. Now protein is more like a flex fuel, it certainly can be used to make glucose some of the gluconeogenic amino acids or make ketones, some of the ketogenic amino acids, but it is primarily and preferably used for body infrastructure, right? It wants to be used for collagen, for ligaments, for tendons for muscle growth, for enzymes, and cofactors, and all of that kind of stuff. And so when the body is looking at these three fuel sources, it's essentially saying, Look, I don't want to use my protein, if possible, because I need it to repair and recover. And I need it to make the things that are going to be required to help me perform and exercise and adapt. And so right there, that tells you that protein is going to become your primary macronutrient. And when I say primary macronutrient, I don't necessarily mean that this is going to be the dominant macronutrient in your macronutrient ratios. But it should be the dominant macronutrient that you're paying most attention to. That's what I mean here. And right off the bat, we do have really good research, especially good research in the last five or 10 years here telling us basically what we should know here. Now we know conclusively that not only are higher protein diets going to be better for this, but they're also incredibly safe for all of us, except for people who have existing liver and kidney disease. Everyone else higher protein diets not only are healthy are good for us, but can actually be extra healthy and extra longevity inducing for us, in other words help us age better, partly because of how they replace lots of our proteins. Now, one thing to say here is that for those people who are vegans and vegetarians, you might hear a lot of argument about this idea of you don't need a whole lot of protein. If you want to do body composition and you want to do it well, you're going to have to change your views on that. One of the things that you got to look at when we're talking about the protein as a macronutrient is you have to kind of understand that nobody in the modern day eating just a general diet vegan vegetarian, very, very few people are going to become protein deficient. That does not mean however that you're going to have adequate protein to put on the amount of muscle you might want to put on a maintain muscle in our body recover positioning program, right? Those are two different things keeping you from becoming protein deficient, versus having adequate protein levels. So I'm just gonna go strictly by the research here. And so for those of you who are vegans, vegetarians, and are worried about these, you know, sort of numbers, these are evidence based numbers that are basically looking at what is required without looking at whether you're a meat eater, vegan or vegetarian or anything like that, to most enhance pro muscle protein synthesis, and deal with some of the issues around excess hunger and overeating that can cause us to eat too much and gain fat, which we don't want to do if we're trying to run body composition, and the research around this. And so, I'll talk a little bit about how vegans and vegetarians can get these numbers because right away when you hear these numbers, you may begin to say, Okay, this is excessive, from the point of view of trying to do this as a vegan or vegetarian. And truth is, it's actually pretty easy as a vegetarian. It's not, it's not as easy as a vegan. But it can be done once you start using protein replacement, supplements and things like that protein shakes and things of that nature. So first, let's start with the protein. The way that you'll want to do this is twofold. You want to consume in grams of protein daily, the amount that you want to weigh, or the amount that you currently weigh in grams. Okay, so let me give you an example. This, typically, the amount most of us want to weigh is going to be close to our fat free mass, basically, our muscle mass plus our organ tissues plus body water plus glycogen and all that kind of stuff. So I know my fat free mass, and you can calculate your fat free mass by taking your body weight, right, so I'm 225 pounds, times your body fat, about 14% 13 14% body fat. And I can take my 13%, basically times 225 and get my fat free mass. Now in general, right? If I say, hey, look, I would like to weigh 200 pounds, because I'm 225, then I want to essentially consume my fat free mass or the amount that I want to weigh in grams of protein per day, up to the amount I do weigh. So for me, I don't really want to be below 200 pounds, my fat free mass, by the way, is what let's do that calculation really quickly, just so those of you don't know how to do the calculation. So I'm 13% body fat 225 pounds times point one, three equals 29.25, right, and then minus that by 225. So basically, my lean body mass is close to 190 195 pounds, right? So that's a lot for fat free mass. So I'm about right in terms of what I wouldn't want to go below 200 pounds. But the point is, you want to set your protein grams to that range. So 225 pounds, or 20 to 25 grams of protein daily equals my pounds in body weight, no less than 200 grams of protein per day. So for me, I would be consuming 200 grams to 225 grams of protein per day, at a minimum. Now you might say, Well, Jake, can I go higher than that? You certainly can although it may not be beneficial and remember, we're walking this fine line, protein can be stored as fat, it's just much more difficult to store it as fat. So we're walking this fine line where we're basically creating this very, you know, sort of ISO caloric to hypo caloric to hypo caloric sort of state right. In other words, we're bouncing around in this range, where some days we're probably going to be slightly over some days, we're going to be slightly under some days, we're going to be more ISO caloric, because overall, what we're trying to do is trade fat for muscle, or I'm sorry, trade muscle for fat, so replace fat with muscle. This is what we're trying to do. Now there's several different ways to do this. One way that some people do is they'll take the offseason, if they're a bodybuilder, and they will gain a bunch of weight and try to gain their muscle, then they'll try to strip off the fat. That's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about trying to do both at the same time. So what that means is, you're gonna have a very narrow calorie gap, right, you're gonna be playing in that gap. And we can do that by having more protein in our diets as a total amount. Now what I like to do with this is I like to set my macronutrients for myself at 4030 30. And I like to basically calculate this based on the amount of protein grams I'm going to shoot for per day. So if I'm going to be consuming 225 grams of protein daily, and that's 30% of my total calories, right? So we'll do this calculation together here and see if you can follow me as we go along. So I'm 225 pounds. And I know that I'm going to essentially be taking 30%. That that is 30% of my total calories, right? And I know that there's four calories per gram of protein, right? So I can say 225. That would be grams protein times four, right? Times point three zero, right? Is that right? It's the 225 times four, divided by point three, zero, right? Okay. So that's how we do because we have to cross multiply. So 225 is my body weight, there's four calories per gram of protein. So 225 grams of protein is what I'm eating. So we multiply that times four, that means 900 Right calories, I will be consuming as protein. Now what is 900 calories 30% of so we have to cross multiply divided by point three, zero and that gives me a calorie count of 3000. On this recomp positioning diet, and then from there, I can essentially say, Okay, well, that gives me my protein, right, that gives me my total calories, but my carbs are going to be 40%. So times point four zero, right, that's 1200 calories of carbs. And there's four, also four calories per gram of carb. So that'll be 300 grams of carbohydrates per day. So now that means I got 300 grams of carbs, 225 grams of protein. Now let's figure out the fat, right, so the fat is also 30%. So that'll be 900 calories, right? So we know that 3000 calories times point three zero, right, it's not another 900 calories, but this time, there are nine calories per gram of fat, right. So that's 100 grams of fat. So that's how I would begin my initial calculation to one and 25 grams of protein, 300 grams of carbohydrate, and 100 grams of fat would be my initial 3000 calories. And you can do this yourself, once you decide the amount of protein you're going to be taking in. So you see our protein becomes the most important macronutrient in this recomp positioning diet, right. So a 40-30-30, diet, 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat. Now, if you wanted to, you could ramp up your protein even more, or ramp up your carbs even more, but you probably want to leave you're fat 30% or less. And that's because the fat commands such a high amount of calories. And so what you want to be doing here, and by the way, for some of you, for some of you who are used to this, this is easy math, and you're used to counting macros, and doing all this for those of you who aren't, let me give you a shortcut here, when you're doing this, you don't have to worry about much at all. And you actually don't even have to do that calculation if you just start with your protein grams.

[28:15] For example, if you just go, I'm gonna get in my body weight and grams of protein per day, then I'm going to eat basically how I feel like I want to eat and then I'm going to wait three days, and then I'm going to write down and weigh everything I'm eating and back calculate, just say, okay, when I get my children 25 grams of protein Am I getting the amount of calories that I need? What's the amount of calories I'm getting, and what is the result that I'm getting. So you can do this in a little bit more intuitive way. And by the way, that's the way I would do this. And I do this, I essentially just go look, I'm going to consume 20 to 25 grams of protein. I'm going to ramp up my exercise, which we'll talk about here in a minute. I'm going to minimize my fat intake, and I'm going to make sure I get enough but not too much carbs. So when you think about the macronutrients, think about carbs. Not too much, not too little, but just right. Think about this exact amount of protein and think about de emphasizing fat. And the reason we want to de emphasize fat is because that is what's going to ramp up a lot of the calories and we want our body to burn off that fat. And we know that when we're going to be doing lots of intense exercise carbohydrates are a better fuel for that. So this really is very different than what a lot of people think keto is not going to work as well here. Intermittent fasting probably won't work as well here although some people do use it and I'll talk a little bit about how to use it. But the best way to do this is going to be to fuel the body with carbs use those carbs to get very intense workouts, get plenty of protein on board to help you repair the damage that you've done and increase muscle protein synthesis and keep the calories down by de emphasizing your fat intake. This is the way that it's done and it can be very is simply done simply by prioritizing protein. Now, if you're in Europe, because I know have a lot of listeners who think in terms of kilograms, make sure you if you're going to use this make sure you convert your weight into pounds, this should be grams of protein per pound of body weight, or grams of protein per lean body mass or fat free mass. Usually your fat free mass is going to kind of be like where you would want to weigh and what you would weigh, if you were looking sort of your best that would be an extremely lean body. So this is the way you want to do this. Also, one of the things you want to think about with muscle protein synthesis and building muscle is that the more feeding opportunities, the better, what the research actually shows us is that if you consume all of your protein at one meal, let's say you're an intermittent, intermittent faster. Now, of course, there is a prioritization here, but total amount of protein matters most. However, right after that is the total amount and frequency of eating. In other words, research has shown not all research, but enough to make us kind of give some general ideas that four feeding opportunities is better than three is better than two is better than one. And so yes, first and foremost, prioritize the amount of protein that's most important. Just to repeat that really quickly, you're going to want to based on the research have for feeding opportunities with protein, right? This is going to be the way so that means four meals, or at least four times that you're taking in protein, you don't have to be like the full meal. But you should be having protein at those times, at least four of these feeding opportunities. And this is very different than what a lot of us think about, especially as of late when we're thinking about intermittent fasting and keto and all of this kind of stuff. Think of those as more fat burning protocols. Think of what I'm telling you now is more muscle building. Along with fat burning, it's the protein that allows us to be a better multitasker. In the same way, the exercise allows us to be a better multitasker.

[36:48] and let's get back to the show. So let's just repeat what we've got for protein right now you're going to consume somewhere between your body weight in pounds in grams of protein that would be up near the max of what you're going to consume. You don't want to consume any less than your lean body mass in grant in pounds in grams of protein per day so for me, that's going to be somewhere around 200 grams to 225 grams of protein daily. Now if I want to, I can certainly calculate my macronutrients at a 40 30 30 macronutrient ratio to start, some people might say Jade, I'm going to need a little bit more carbs. And so they might go 50 30 20 some people might go 40 40 20. Many bodybuilders who are serious about this, you'll see them try to get their fat down around 20%. I like to keep my fat up a little bit closer to 30%. But I don't really like to go above that. And then I'm going to be giving myself or you're going to be giving yourself four feeding opportunities per day four meals per day, I oftentimes call this the four to two eating protocol, the four stands for four meals per day the two stands for to mixed meals. And the other two stands for two meals with basically only protein and vegetable This is another really intuitive way to get this where it's essentially Hey, I'm doing a four to two approach for meals to with just vegetables and no carbs are fat, and too with carbs, or starch and fat. So another way to think about this 40 30 30 protocol that is more calorie based and math based, you can do it more intuitive based using this four to two protocol. Now one thing that comes up here is this idea of like, well, Jade, how many grams of protein should I have per meal, because I've heard things like you really need, you can only absorb 20 grams of grams of protein per day, or you can't take in more than 30-40 grams of protein per day or some of the are per meal rather, some of these things that people talk about. And the truth is probably the upper limit for most people in terms of the muscle protein synthesis, the ability for us to digest, absorb and assimilate, you know, and ramp up muscle protein synthesis looks like in some of the research is probably around 40 to 45 grams however. So you can kind of think about that sort of the upper limit. However, that does not mean we should not and cannot get more as a matter of fact, this is going to you could you can absorb as much as you eat. It's just whether or not it's going to be utilized for muscle protein synthesis. And think about the other aspect of what we're doing with this idea of multitasking. One of the problems people get in too is they tried to diet and they want to burn fat or build muscle or whatever. And their hunger becomes a mitigating factor, a factor that keeps them from being able to do what they want because they start out trying to follow this 422 protocol or this 40 30 30 protocol or whatever it is but then they get so hungry or they have cravings that they can't do it. And they end up over consuming fat and starch. And so the other thing that protein does, and the reason you want to err higher if you're having cravings, so what I'm telling you is actually, if you're having hunger and cravings, it's not just about muscle protein synthesis versus muscle protein breakdown. It's also about keeping hunger and cravings in check. And some people need to go even higher than those protein amounts. And research has actually shown that can not only be safe, but going up even higher, can have even more beneficial effects in this multitasking aspect of things, and is also completely safe. So in other words, they've actually shown going as high as 1.5. And maybe even up to you know, if 225 for me, maybe even up to 300 grams of protein per day, based on the output that I'm putting in now is all of that going to go to muscle protein synthesis? No, it's less far less likely to go to fat than starch and fat as macronutrients though, and it may do enough to shut down my hunger. So I'm not over eating in general. And this is the idea here.

[41:18]  So there are two things we're talking about when we're talking about the amount of protein that you can use for muscle protein synthesis versus the amount of protein that might be required also to shut down hunger and cravings. So hopefully, that's making sense. So protein is the priority. Here, eat, I would recommend up to your body weight and grams of protein per day or two, if you're very lean very small, or very big. If you're very obese or very small, then maybe you want to go lean body mass, or just that upper. Now, if you're very lean or small, you might want to go up a little bit more, if you're very heavy, you might want to go down a little bit more from that I think very overweight individuals above 30% body fat, probably best using your lean body mass as your gauge for the amount of protein that you take in. For example, we wouldn't want a 350 pound person to be necessarily consuming 350 grams of protein daily. But let's say their lean body mass is 200. That might be where we want them to be. So hopefully that makes sense. That's the first aspect of the multitasking protocol. Very simple. Actually, I think I met probably made it a little bit more complex than it needed to be. But I wanted to have a full discussion here. But one final time here for the third time, it's as simple as maximize protein intake. That is as simple as what you want to do maximize and prioritize protein intake. One thing I'll say about this, by the way, too, is that when you're eating this much protein, one of the things that happens is many people feel like they just can't get it all in because protein is so satiating for some people. So for many people, it becomes a limiting factor because they just lose their appetite. And so in a very real sense, multitasking in this way, body composition can be very tough, just like dieting. So some people are like, Oh, this is good, this is great. I can eat all this stuff. But the truth of the matter is, when you're trying to take into under 25 grams of lean protein, you're talking about bison, egg, white chicken breast, very lean protein sources, because you have to have these lean protein sources. Otherwise, a lot of protein comes along with a lot of fat. And you'll see very quickly if you start getting serious about this is that most of your protein has to come from lean protein sources. And so you will find yourself not being very hungry, and this can be difficult for many people. Now for the vegans and vegetarians just briefly, there are plenty of plant based protein powder, soy, not necessarily my favorite, but it might be yours. Soy Protein powders, hemp protein powders, pea based protein powders, rice based protein powders. Now, if you're a vegetarian, obviously, whey and casein and those things are fantastic, and usually the best tasting, but if you're a vegan, you can use these other protein sources. The other thing with vegans is, you're going to have to rely more heavily on these protein shakes and protein powders and things like that. And one hint that I'll give you here is whenever you ramp up, this goes for vegetables, too, whenever people go on diets, and they start to ramp up their protein intake, and they ramp up their insoluble fiber intake, they can oftentimes get gas and bloating. So those of you who have sensitive gi systems, rule one, bring your protein and vegetable intake up slowly rule to maybe add some digestive enzymes to alleviate some of the gastrointestinal discomfort that can come with ramping this stuff up and you do it slowly, typically won't bother you too much. And certainly the digestive enzymes can come in handy there. So that's all I'll say on the diet component. That's going to be the way you do your diet. And I like to just apply some general rules here.

[44:49] now we're basically going to go into the exercise component. This is where we're really going to start to utilize some of the extra carbohydrates. So some people might say, well, Jade, why are you having 40% starch even up to 50% of starch 300 grams of, you know, starch in your, you know, diet carbohydrates as total grams. Part of the reason is insulin, the same reason people are afraid of carbohydrates is the same reason we want them insulin is a muscle building hormone it is, arguably I would say it is the most anabolic hormone in the body, because without insulin, you can't get food into the cell. So it has to be the most anabolic hormone in the body. And when you're using insulin in the context of a lot of resistance training, and not a whole lot of calories, just on that edge of calorie excess to gain muscle but not fat, it's going to be a really beneficial hormone. So you want the starch in that Goldilocks zone. So let's talk about now the exercise component. And we can end this particular podcast for today, the exercise component needs to be resistance training, dominant. And there's three aspects to build muscle that we know of, in terms of what the research says, primarily, they are the following. It is about time under tension, the amount of stress and strain that is on the muscle. So this can come from Yes, one repetition out of heavy weight or on the 11th repetition, you're starting to feel stress and strain through the body. So muscle tension is one, muscle damage is the other. One of the things that happens when you are really pushing your muscles as you'll oftentimes get these muscle molecules, these signaling molecules that muscle releases, called myokines of things like IL15, IL6, IL8, nitric oxide, lactate lactic acid is also something that is released from the muscle, a lot of people think that causes a burn in the muscle, it does not actually buffers against the burn, it also acts as a signaling molecule for human growth hormone. So the more you push the muscles, sort of this Metabolic strains, we want mechanical strain, and we want metabolic strain, we want both of those, the more you'll feel a pump, and a burn in your muscles. So you know, you're getting it when you feel your muscles getting pumped up and swollen, and that you're getting a burn in your muscles as well. So I oftentimes like to talk about the Bs and the ages, breathless, burning heavy and heat. When we're talking about gaining muscle, it's really about the burning and the heavy component, because the heavy component is about the mechanical strain on the muscle. And the burning component is really about and the pump, which comes along with the burn is really about the metabolic strain on the muscle. And of course, when we're talking about gaining muscle, it's really about the total volume of work that the muscle does. So we really want to be thinking about mechanical strain, total volume of work and metabolic strain as well. Now, there are interesting studies on this, because it has actually been shown that despite what people think there are many ways to skin, this cat of muscle building. Some people do really well, in sort of the old fashioned sort of bodybuilding range of the 10 Rep Max, you know, three to five sets of eight to 12 repetitions with nearing failure towards the end of those repetitions. However, there are also it has also been shown the very high reps up near 30 can also stimulate muscle growth. And it's also been shown in research that and this is an interesting set of studies that was done that basically took different groups of people and looked at the hormonal responses. Testosterone in particular to different resistance training protocols, for example might be, you know, take one group and you say, we're going to put you in the three to five sets of eight to 12 repetition group. And then we're going to measure your testosterone and human growth hormone, hormone responses to that. And we're going to take another group, and we're going to put them in a high repetition group, and we're going to measure their responses, and then we're going to switch groups. So everyone goes through both groups and gets their responses measured. And what you'll see is that certain people get more testosterone and human growth hormone response from eight to 12 reps, three to five sets protocol versus other people get more testosterone and human growth hormone responses from the higher repetition, you know, group or protocol. And then what the researchers did, and I forget this researchers name but they basically men said, Alright, we're gonna take and now do a separate, separate study, where we're gonna take the people who had the biggest responses to testosterone and human growth hormone and whatever protocol and we're gonna assign them to that protocol. And they actually saw those people get the most gains by being assigned to the protocol that elicited the greatest testosterone and human growth hormone affects in those individuals. And so that line of research tells us there probably is an individual response here. So in a sense, you can do high rep or you can do more lower repetitions, you can be in the three to five sets of eight to 12 rep sort of group if you want. And especially if you feel like you, you know, get a lot from that, or you can be in the high repetition group, if you want to get the best of both worlds, which is, what I love to do is I like to do something along the lines of, you basically do three to five sets of every exercise that you're going to do in the eight to 12 rep range, that sort of 10 rep max range, if you can't get a you're probably going to have if you get more than 12, then you're going to light and then do a six and set, which is a failure set. So you do that set to failure, or a drop set, for example, would look something like this, let's say we're doing a bench press, okay, and let's say my working sets on bench would be 225, right. So on bench-press, I do set one, I do two to 25. And I get 13 reps on 225 pounds on bench-press. So then I might want to go up a little bit to 275. And let's say at 275, I get 10 reps, nine reps and then my third set, I get another eight reps, right. And then my fourth set, I get eight reps, and then my fifth set, I get eight reps. Okay, so I've done my five sets of eight to 12 reps with 225 pounds. Now what I'm going to do is strip the weight off the bar, and I'm going to go down to let's say 155, or 135, right, and I'm going to strip a 45 pound plate off the bar, and I'm going to rip that out for as many reps as I can due to failure, then I'm going to rack it, right count the amount of seconds, that of reps that I got, and then go again. So for example, if I finished my fifth set, and I stripped the weight off, and I rep out 135, let's say I get 135 20 times, then I'm gonna count 20 seconds in my head. And then I'm gonna go again, as many reps as I can get on 135. And let's say now I get 17 reps, then I'm gonna count 17 seconds, and I'm gonna go again, and maybe I get 10 reps, I'm gonna do that three times, for sort of this, you know, drop time set, that is basically a finisher. So you're basically going from these heavy reps with heavier weights. And then you're going this last little finisher, these quick drop sets, or these Quick Sets with lighter weights to burn the muscle out. So you see what we're doing there, we're getting that sort of straining effect, and then we're getting that burning effect and so that's how you want to be thinking about doing your resistance training. And you could do this for every single movement, this is the way I like to do and this assures you're getting both the mechanical strain on the muscle, and you're getting that metabolic pump on the muscle as well. And by the way, it doesn't have to be the same exercise exactly, but it should be the same exercise group. So let's say for example, I'm doing pull ups, and I use bent over rows as the burnout for the back, that's fine when you're doing these burnout sets at the end of your working eight to 12 rep sets. Just make sure they're the same muscle group. Now, how often should you be training, there's several different ways to do this, obviously, you're going to want to be training most days of the week, which means four to seven days a week, I think four to six is the sweet spot. So I like five days per week to begin with, for most people. And I also like to follow a protocol that's an upper lower upper lower upper day. So basically, let's say I now give you the workout that you can actually follow this workout. So let's say I'm going to split the body into upper and lower body. So my upper day is going to be a vertical press like a bench press a vertical I'm sorry, a horizontal press like a bench press, a horizontal pull like a bent over row, a vertical press like an overhead shoulder press and a vertical pole like pull ups, right. And then I'm going to do let's say any exercise for biceps and any exercise for triceps. This gets my whole body a horizontal push a horizontal pole, a vertical push a vertical pole and then something for biceps and something for triceps. So that's 123456 movements. Okay? And in each movement I'm going to do for the big movements, I'm probably going to do five sets of eight to 12 reps with those three drop sets attached. And for the small biceps movements and tricep movement, I'm probably gonna do three sets of eight to 12 reps with those three set drops. That would be my upper day. On my lower day, I would do squat, let's say leg press, leg extension, and leg curl, let's say right, and then you know, something you always want to balance out the front of the legs, the posterior and anterior chain so the back of the legs and the front of the legs. So a squat is kind of hitting both leg presses sort of hitting both, but they both lean a little bit more quad dominant, right. So then you put in a leg extension that's kind of quad dominant to and then you got a leg curl, that's hamstring dominant, then you probably want something like a stiff leg deadlift or something like that, to balance out the back. So that's five movements now, squat, leg press, leg extension leg curl, and a stiff leg deadlift or something like that, right. And then you essentially do the same thing there, eight to 12 reps, five sets for the big muscle groups. And all of those are kind of big muscle groups, and then the three drop sets. Then for the week, you go upper Monday, lower Tuesday, upper Wednesday, lower Thursday, right and then upper again, on Friday was Saturday and Sunday off. Then when you start the week again, back on Monday, you start with lowers, and then we'll be lower upper lower upper lower, right. So you could do it all in a row like that. Or you could do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, off Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off, however you want to do that. But you're going to do most of your days of your week like that. Now, think about this, this is a lot of action, a lot of muscles being worked. So for you beginners, you probably don't need all of that you could probably get away with just four days per week, or even three days per week and still get some of this read composition in effect. But for those of you who are more advanced like me, that's probably what is going to be required. And that is pretty much it. Now you might say, well Jade, what about cardio? What about that, for me, just walk, you don't need to do any cardio at all, partly because some of the cardio can interfere especially with those of us who are a little bit more advanced, you don't really need it, rest periods between working sets, you want the rest, you do not want to go too fast. These are not metabolic conditioning workouts, you want to take two three minutes between sets, except for those drop sets that we talked about. And this is how I would be doing this. Now, of course, this is one way to skin the cat the recommendation that I'm giving you all for those of you who are asking me, Hey Jade I want to start a program this spring, build muscle, burn some fat, what should I be doing, this is what I recommend for body composition, a lot of stuff that I covered here, but it's actually really simple, right?

[57:19] if I had to break this down into three things, three things only. Make sure you eat plenty of protein up near your body weight and grams in pounds and grams of protein daily to make sure you're getting four to seven. I think five is perfect for people who are more advanced three to four for people who are more beginners, resistance training workouts per day done in the way that I talked about. That's three or less two, three is walk, walk, walk, walk, walk like crazy and walking those also just a catch all phrase for recover, right? Take hot baths hang out in the sauna. If you're going to build the muscle, you also need to recover. So make sure that you recover and walking should be the cardio that you do. You don't want to miss to do a whole lot of cardio, and I guarantee you you're gonna get great body recon positioning results if you follow this, the big mistakes people are going to make is too much fat in their diet. Not enough protein, right? Not doing the right kind of resistance training. But really the big mistake here is gonna be the biggest one is going to probably be your protein intake is going to be what gets a lot of you and then just get into the gym and get your resistance training. Right and walk and this is what I would try for those of you who are wanting to get into the body recon positioning sort of side of things. All right, I'm going to end right there you guys let me know how you do. I want to hear from you. If you're going to try this out and use this particular protocol or if you have any other questions about it, hit me up on DM shoot me an email support at jadeteta.com. Hope you enjoyed the podcast today and I will see you next time.